Wikipedia:Featured article review

[edit] Featured article reviews

[edit] War of the Spanish Succession

Notified Wikiproject Spain, Germany, Military History, and User:DrKiernan

This article, one of the last unreviewed Emsworth classics, desperately needs inline citations as it has very few. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 01:15, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

• Comment. Whoah. When you said "desperately needs inline citations", you weren't kidding. Although the prose of the article is generally excellent, the total lack of inline citations is a bit disturbing. I'd suggest contacting the primary contributors, to see if anything can be done about it. Cheers! Cam (Chat) 22:35, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Libya

Notified projects/users: WikiProject Libya, Jaw101ie, Xyzzy n and FayssalF

I have conserns about 1b, and some minor conserns about 1c. Major facts and details that should have been included, is i.e.

• the conflict between Libya and Chad, and Gadaffis attempt to make a libyan-chadish union.
• The armed forces/defense of Libya
• Divisions/Subdivisions; the municipalities used is outdated.
• Economy: The article doesn't tell anything about unemployness, and is spare when it comes to information about business activities in Libya, and also about export/import.
• Economy: "an extensive and impressive level of social security" is somewhat unclear, when it does not tell what the social security is.
• Demography: The age of the population, and birth mortality.
• The culture section is spare, not mentioning important issues like sport in Libya, or food.
• Under religion: The time for the oldest jewish settlement is wrong compared to the given source.

Grrahnbahr (talk) 21:44, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bill Russell

I've notified WikiProject National Basketball Association, Myasuda, Onomatopoeia, Quadzilla99, Zodiiak, Chensiyuan, and Warhol13. Zagalejo^^^ 06:51, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

This article was promoted in 2007, and I was one of the people who voted in support. Admittedly, I hadn't read the entire article very closely, and I believe it falls short of satisfying 1a and 1d.

My concerns:

• Some phrases are taken almost verbatim from the sources. In the "personal life" section, we have two sentences which are very similar to those in this article. ("His would-be neighbors filed a petition trying to block the move, and when that failed, other neighbors banded together to try to purchase the home that Russell wanted to buy. . . Furthermore, once in Marion, Indiana, he had been given the key to the city only to be refused service that evening in his hotel's dining room. Russell went to the mayor's home, woke him up, and returned the key.") User:Xeriphas1994 pointed this out on the talk page in November 2007. Unfotunately, I hadn't noticed that message until now (and I guess no one else did, either.) It might be wise to check everything in the article, to make sure it's free of plagiarism.
  • I've reworded the two sentences above, but I'm still worried that there may be similar problems elsewhere in the article. Zagalejo^^^ 17:16, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
• The article often sounds more like a sportswriter's column than an encylopedia article. It has a lot of sports jargon ("This was the first time in seven years that he failed to average 23 boards"), and the language is not always neutral ("Russell grabbed an incredible 40 rebounds in Game 2"; "They finished with a lackluster 48–34 record"; "Russell completed another fine year"; "Russell himself put up decent numbers of 9.9 points per game", etc.)
• The "Accomplishments and legacy" section is a real chore to read, especially the second paragraph, which is just a flood of statistical information, with repetitive transitions ("Russell also... Russell also...") That information might be better in list form.

I don't mean to be persnickety, but I think it's fair to ask that we make this the best article it can be. I'm committed to helping out with what I can, but I can't do it myself. Zagalejo^^^ 06:41, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

You're not being persnickety. Plagarism is as serious an issue as we can face. I'm going to do a full source check for you, and will post if I find any hint of copying text. I don't have any of the books, so you're out of luck there. Giants2008 (talk) 20:41, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I've gone through the first 10 references, and I have a couple questions. Nothing major, but I might as well mention them now.

• Article: "which was later called an important bonding experience for the group." Ref 3: "The result is what we might refer to today as a "bonding" experience." No plagarism, but should "bonding" be placed in quotation marks in the article?
• Ref 7: Alex Hannum being the only coach to beat the Celtics in the playoffs during their dynasty is not referenced by this. At least I can't find it. This also appears tacked on, and not very relevant to Russell.

I haven't found anything to match the plagarism examples given, but have been making changes to items that are close to the source text.

If it's close, why take chances? Feel free to revert if you don't like the adjustments, and I'll be back for more tomorrow. Giants2008 (talk) 23:46, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your hard work. I'll look through a batch of references later tonight. Zagalejo^^^ 23:55, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I've covered everything up to "1956-59". I haven't found any other whole sentences that have been copied from the sources, but I changed a few phrases that I thought were a little too close for comfort. People can look through the edit history to see. I also did a little bit of general copyediting, but nothing too extensive. I'll check more of the sources later. Zagalejo^^^ 04:48, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

With Zagalejo's help, I've made it through 35 sources so far. My worst discovery so far was a factual error, stating that Russell had a 30-point, 40-rebound performance in Game 7 of the 1963 NBA Finals, when he actually did so in 1962. The game also went one overtime, not two as the article previously said. This is now fixed. Let me throw out my one concern so far.

• Article: "In one particular instance, Russell's father was denied service at a gasoline station until the staff had taken care of all the white customers. When his father attempted to leave and find a different station, the attendant stuck a shotgun in his face, threatening to kill him unless he stayed and waited his turn. In another instance, Russell's mother was walking down the street in a fancy dress when the local sheriff accosted her."
• Ref 1 (The Current): "In one instance, his father was denied service at a gasoline station until all the other white customers were taken care of. To add insult to injury, when his father calmly drove away toward another station, the attendant shoved a shotgun in his face and threatened to kill him unless he came back and waited.

In another instance, Bill's mother was walking down the street wearing a beautiful dress when the sheriff stopped her...". Is this too close to the source text? I didn't think so yesterday when I checked it, but it's starting to bother me now. If anyone wants to comment on this, please do. Giants2008 (talk) 18:36, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I tried to reword those a little bit more. I'm not sure if I'm satistfied. Zagalejo^^^ 21:56, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I've made it to ref 46, (Counter Punch) and I have bad news. There are several other statements sourced to this site that look almost identical in the article. The whole paragraph probably needs to be re-written. Giants2008 (talk) 20:50, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm done with my source check, and refs 47 (ZMag) and 51 (Foundation for Sarcoidosis Research) are also repeated closely in the article. The Personal life section seems to be where the real problem is. Giants2008 (talk) 21:05, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks so much for doing that. That personal life section is problematic for other reasons. I remember reading that few NBA teams ever approached a sellout in the 1960s, so it may not be wise to use the attendance figures as an example of racism toward Russell. I'm just going to pull those sentences out for the time being. Hopefully, some of the main article writers will drop by sometime to chime in. Zagalejo^^^ 21:25, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Duke University

Notified WikiProjects Universities, ACC, North Carolina, and Durham NC; and Durham NC; users LaszloWalrus (talk · contribs), Bluedog423 (talk · contribs), and ElKevbo (talk · contribs).

I have concerns about criteria 4 (too long), 3 (too many images), and possibly 1(a) and 1(d), The article was ~50K when it was promoted and is now ~100K, and has perhaps lost focus. 152.2.128.80 (talk) 00:53, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

• It would be helpful if you gave examples of where the article fails to meet 1a and 1d. BuddingJournalist 01:17, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
  • I found the research, rankings and alumni (sub-)sections particularly difficult to read. I'm less concerned about them as I expect articles to be positive and everything is well cited, but I think the Academics and Athletics sections could be more balanced. 152.2.128.80 (talk) 01:31, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I should probably be a little more precise... The are phrases like "captured national championships", "men's lacrosse program has been a recent powerhouse", "Duke's men's basketball team, a traditional powerhouse" (also not cited), "legendary coach Steve Spurrier" (my italics in each case) that don't sound very encyclopedic, and perhaps a little unbalanced. I'm not arguing that Duke University has a good reputation in academics and athletics, more it could be stated more objectively and with more brevity. I don't think the athletics section is following summary style well, given there are separate articles for athletics, football, basketball, etc. already. I think perhaps there's a little too much "cruft" in the academics and athletics sections.

I've also just noticed some inconsistencies between the infobox and article prose. For instance student population figures do not agree and there may be other details. I'm not sure the Blue Devil's athletic logo meets fair use criteria for this article, and it is used twice. I haven't checked the details of other image licenses yet.

I think this article needs to be carely paired down towards the length it was when promoted, with less images, and then comprehensively copyedited and peer reviewed. If that can be done during this FAR, then great, but I would tend to think it will take longer and might want to aim to perfect the good article criteria first. 152.2.128.80 (talk) 14:19, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

1.) The article is not too long. It is 94 KB when including everything such as citations. However, the prose is an acceptable length according [[to Wikipedia:Article_size guidelines.

2.) Citations are not needed in the lead when the repeat information in the rest of the article (as the lead should). Please see Wikipedia:Lead_section.

3.) Duke logo.PNG not fair use? Either you are not very familiar with wikipedia policies, or you have an ulterior motive. I assume good faith so I assume you are just new to wikipedia. Although you are posting from Chapel Hill...Duke's rival. Almost all other FA university articles use their athletic logos in them. Perhaps you thought the two reasons listed for fair use weren't enough (I'm not sure why), but instead of listing it as a non-free image, it would be helpful to add the appropriate rationale rather than proposing the image for deletion when it is clearly has been accepted by the wikipedia community that sports logos are acceptable for fair use.

4.) Re: phrases. "captured" is POV? Huh? Is "win" better? Doesn't really matter. The "powerhouse" and "legendary" terms were added recently and can certainly be re-worded or cited without a problem. Hardly a reason to de-list it from FA. Also, the vast majority of the cite needed tags are already cited, just not after every sentence. You have to look at the other citations in the paragraph. For example, I'll take the first fact needed tag that's not in the lead: "The academy was renamed Normal College in 1851 and then Trinity College in 1859 because of support from the Methodist Church." This sentence is verified by both the topic sentence citation and the sentence after it. It is generally accepted to not have a citation after every single sentence as this would make the article unreadable. The article already has 170 citations! (that is why it's almost 100 KB in length when including the citations)

5.) Thanks for pointing out the inconstancy of the number of students from the infobox and the article itself. That can be easily fixed - and the answer can be found be looking at the source article.

To be honest, I think this FAR has no merit whatsover as the article has barely changed from how it read when it was promoted to FA. The only significant change is additional citations, which is why the article size has increased. -Bluedog423^Talk 01:19, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I wondered how long before someone from Duke would point out my IP address was in Chapel Hill. Given Durham is less than 10 miles from where I am now, would it really shock you that someone might have connections to both schools? You will recall that the two universities at times share faculty, staff, courses, and students are able to obtain credit from both and North Carolina State University. It's also common to see Duke undergraduates becoming UNC postgraduates and vice versa.

Anyway, I'll assume good faith with you as you should with me. A FAR isn't an attempt to delist, it firstly an attempt to improve the article, and I think it is in need of much improvement.

I'll leave it for other people to comment on the size, but my person opinion is that it is too long. It may be I'm wrong, or is just extra citations, but either way, you'll need to split something soon if it keeps growing at this pace. I would suggest pairing down the athletics section, though, and losing some of the statistics in the academics section.

Some of the information in the lead isn't in the main body, but I agree that you don't need citations otherwise. You should double-check that everything is covered as I don't believe it is.

On the subject of athletic logos, you really shouldn't be using a non-free image twice. The non-free guideline specifically says use as minimally as possible. Also this isn't the athletics page and you could convey just as good message with a free image of an athlete. The non-free guidelines are what you should be looking at, not other articles. You need to fill in an appropriate rationale on the image page naming the article anyway.

Of course you don't need citations on every sentence, but some important points didn't appear to be covered by the citations you have, or the relevant citation needs to be more clearly attributed. Also if you use the link checker tool on the tool server, you will find a few number of broken links. That's to be expected given the dynamic nature of the internet, but they need to be fixed if at all possible.

It's merely my opinion that the article declined for the reasons above and needs to be reviewed, but please remember this is not person, it is a review and not a delisting and we're all working here to keep the article featured in the future. Thanks. 152.2.128.80 (talk) 02:17, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

• Comment. I'll take a deep breath here, and firstly admit a conflict of interest as a major editor of the UNC-CH article. That aside I agree that the lead doesn't need citations, though the only one I would question is the marine lab. I've never heard of it, and I can't track down the reference. My experience with trying to get UNC-CH up to a good article was that we kept athletics section short as we have so many other articles, and all it's hard to be truly NPOV in this part of NC as far as college sports go. ;-) We totally rewrote our reputation and rankings section which previously had long lists of US News reviews, though I've also noticed US News have updated their site with the 2009 graduate schools review, which might be the broken links referred to (I haven't checked). Personally, I have no opinion on the use of logos, but I'd like to see an image of game at Cameron more than the logo. I switched an outside view of the Dean Dome to an inside one for the UNC-CH article, so maybe that's not the most impartial suggestion. ;-) Is it too long? Well, I corrected the external links for you and it crashed my browser a couple of times. It was IE, though... I just looked at the diff, and I'd say the ranking section is where the problem lies (if there is one). It necessitates so many references and article length grows disproportionately compared to what it adds. As I said we rewrote the UNC-CH one, and it seems to work better, so that could be an idea. I'd also reduce the football section down, as you could possibly make the case that lacrosse is more notable than football as far as Duke goes lately. The Rose Bowls are the important football things to mention. This very much a "me" thing, but I'm not a fan of alumni sections since you have to make a judgement on who is "famous" enough, and you have a "list of ..." article to put detail in, so I'd shorten it. But then I'm not a great fan of Nixon or Elizabeth Dole, so I'm a bad person to comment on that section. :-) Hope this helps. Artichoke2020 (talk) 03:06, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
• Forgot to say that I would delete the gallery. They are nice pictures, but it looks awkward and breaks the flow of text. People seem to like commons galleries instead lately. Artichoke2020 (talk) 03:16, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

• Comment. I also have a conflict of image, as my user page reveals. ;) But I don't feel particularly loyal... Anyhow. As far as I'm concerned, the article is not at all too long. But the "fact" tags don't look good from the get-go. Mind you, as stated above, citations aren't needed in the lead; I'm going to remove them from there. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 07:32, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
• I have addressed your wording concerns in the examples given above and added several new references. There are no fact needed tags remaining. I also made some other small edits. -Bluedog423^Talk 16:27, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
  • I think that's much improved. I would just look at the first paragraph of the "Profile" subsection and the whole of the "Rankings" section now. I think would be happy with this as a FA if you could convey the messages in both without quite so many numbers. It's a little mesmerizing to read. I think the all part that you really keep from the first paragraph is the student numbers. Percentiles, SAT scores, etc. are a read turn-off for me as a reader. For the rankings, if you can get the message across in a third of the space it would be better. Perhaps be a little more selective with departments or look for a more general survey. I wouldn't list exact numbers for doctoral programs, but just say top 25, or top 10 and shorten the list. Also is there a more recent survey than 2002 regarding the integration of African American students and faculty? There may not be, but just wondering. Artichoke2020 (talk) 20:58, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
    • Personally, I agree with you that the rankings section is too long. However, if I parse it down, other users will make it just as long, but with less organization and far fewer sources (this is typically the section that people constantly add to and I can't monitor it that closely). Right now, at least, it's verifiable and reliable sources are cited. Furthermore, the format and length is similar to many other Featured university articles - so I must assume that it is accepted protocol to have such details outlined. Duke's ranking section has 368 words spread out over 3 paragraphs. Cornell, for example, has 526 words spread out over 7 paragraphs for its section and far more rankings. Other university FAs are shorter than Duke's, but contain the ranking information in the profile section. I think this is the only method that keeps it a certain length since if it contains its own section, people feel like they can add every single ranking that they can find. Also, in regards to the Profile section, everybody has a different opinion and it's certainly hard to reach a consensus. You may be turned off by the SAT scores, etc. but other people feel that these facts are key and the vast majority of other FA University articles contain such figures. It seems like admissions' selectivity is particularly emphasized in other university FAs and not as many figures about the student body itself - which seems odd to me. In any event, I could see how one could describe this section as containing too many numbers. I could also see somebody argue that the numbers are helpful to illustrate objective criteria. It's very subjective what is important in this section and what is not - I think we should use existing FAs as a guide. Cornell's profile section is similar to the first paragraph in Duke's, but then doesn't contain information about financial aid, current student's scholarships (the third paragraph in the Duke article). I personally think this paragraph is more informative than the first, but I could certainly delete the third paragraph to conform to this standard. Also, the 2002 survey is the most recent. -Bluedog423^Talk 22:39, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
      • I see what you mean. I'd be happy to leave that to your judgement, as you're right, it is subjective. Looking at the third paragraph on financial aid, is the information in it especially notable for a private school? I have no idea as my connections are all to public schools, but unless it's really notable I would be inclined remove or reduce it. One final point, I notice the images in the gallery are fair-use, but that the template says that use should be for "critical commentary" on the work of art, genre or technique, or the school to which the artist belongs. I've interpreted that as meaning the article should be talking about the art or art school, it's not apparent that this is the case here. However, are they still in copyright? Artichoke2020 (talk) 19:05, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
        • Yeah, I agree that the images in the gallery don't qualify for fair use in this article. I have deleted them. I also deleted 5 sentences from the profile section that didn't seem that significant, including percentage of valedictorians rejected (doesn't really tell us anything) and some of the financial aid information. I do think it is important enough to mention that Duke practices need-blind admission as fewer than 40 institutions in the nation (out of thousands) practice it (also, while you might think it's obvious since it's an elite private institution, wikipedia's state the obvious policy seems to suggest to include it if it's important enough because it might not be obvious to others). I have, however, deleted the total amount of aid and the new financial aid policy guidelines as they don't seem to be as significant. Cheers, Bluedog423^Talk 20:51, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
          • I think you've got the right balance. I'd be happy enough with this passing the FAR and remaining a featured article, though I'm by no means an expert so hopefully others will be able to back that up or offer other suggestions. Artichoke2020 (talk) 17:35, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Alliterative verse

Ihcoyc and Io notified.

It seems to be missing citations. Actually, there are no citations. (Criteria 2c) « Milk's Favorite Cøøkie ^{( talk / contribs)}</sup> 21:14, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I definitely agree to that one. But then it was promoted way back in 2003, so it's not surprising. But I don't know what in the world the FA criteria was like back then, because even then it had no citations. Noble Story (talk) 10:21, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Back in 2003, I think featured articles were still "brilliant prose", and an article was better referenced than most if it had a bibliography. My understanding is that FAs from before the promulgation of the citation standards - which are mostly the product of the last three years - are grandfathered. I could try to add them, but the article has been substantially revised since I started it back then. It still reads quite well, IMO. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 14:11, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure where you got that understanding. Please see the first paragraph of the instructions at WP:FAR: "This page is for the review and improvement of featured articles that may no longer meet the featured article criteria. FAs are held to the current standards regardless of when they were promoted." SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:37, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Back in 2003!!! How time flies. Anyway, I am fond of this article, so I am happy it's been nominated, but because of time constraints, I cannot participate further for the time being. But thank you, Milk's Favorite Cøøkie, for notifying me. Cheers Io (talk) 17:42, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Surtsey

Husond and Roadrunnerz45 have been notified as have the Iceland and the Volcanoes WikiProject

I have found that this seems to neglect 1.(c), 2.(c), and 4. It is quite short, and is not of comparable length to current FA's. It is very under-referenced, and some of them aren't in the {{cite web}} proper format at all, just in <ref> tags, with no other relevant information like publisher info. I do not believe that this fits the FA criteria any longer. Dreamafter (talk) 21:14, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

• Support demotion. This article once fulfilled the FA criteria, but just not anymore. Húsönd 21:23, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

• Comment The level of referencing in the first half of the article is substandard. However, articles are judged on comprehensiveness, not length, and it is comparable to other short FAs, such as John Day (printer). Are there major topics that the article fails to address? Also, while some of the citations are not properly formatted, there is no requirement that citation templates be used. Use of solely <ref> tags is perfectly acceptable as long as the references are properly formatted. BuddingJournalist 21:26, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

  Reply I just mean on that note, there is no publisher information, so no idea as to weather they are still or ever reliable. Dreamafter (talk) 21:28, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

  Yes, but I was addressing your comment that "some of them aren't in the {{cite web}} form at all, just in <ref> tags". BuddingJournalist 21:33, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

  I have fixed my wording. Dreamafter (talk) 22:43, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Please complete the nomination by following the instructions at the top of WP:FAR to notify significant contributors and relevant WikiProjects, and post the notifications back to the top of this FAR. I see that you've notified two users, but please also notify relevant projects. Thank you. --Regents Park (Feed my swans) 21:57, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Y Done Dreamafter (talk) 22:43, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 3D Monster Maze

BACbKA and Frodet have been notified, although the former seems inactive, and also left a message at at WikiProject Video games. Stephen 02:06, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Has two sections that lack a single reference. Promoted in early 2006, not sure this is up to the current standards. --Stephen 01:54, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

• Yeah, this article is in strong need of proper in-text citations. I added a tag. Randomran (talk) 02:23, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

• I see only one section without a reference. That said, I believe part of that issue is that the references do not use <ref> and a dedicated {{cite}} template. Those should be cleaned up. --Izno (talk) 02:56, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

You are correct. I misread Edge 2006 as a type of assembler. --Stephen 03:06, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

• The image page for Image:Malcolm-Evans-NGS98.jpeg claims modification and commercial use are allowed, but the included email does not support that. I brought this up to BACbKA about a year ago at User talk:BACbKA but it never got resolved. Other non-free images are lacking rationale. The backlink from the footnote works for me in Firefox, but the link from the Harvard ref to the note does not. The section header "Critical acclaim" seems a little POV to me—"Reception" or something similar would be better. The lead should be expanded. Pagrashtak 12:59, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I have updated the FUR for the images. Image:Malcolm-Evans-NGS98.jpeg is form commons and I'll give BACbKA some time to update the descirption - it appears that some mail communication has transpired earlier. As for the footnotes, Harvard style, they work both ways for me in Opera. I'll take a look at the lead and citations next. --Frodet (talk) 21:32, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for that. The footnote link problem was discussed at Template talk:Ref#Help—it's related to popups. I'd personally rather use the cite.php system, but I know that BACbKA is strongly for Harvard. Does Image:3D-monster-maze-roll-up-roll-up.png satisfy Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria? Why could it not be replaced by text? Pagrashtak 23:43, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Military brat (U.S. subculture)

Besides myself the only other editor with more than 50 edits is SandyGeorgia, and for some reason I think she'll see this on her own ;-) I went ahead and notified her as well as the MILHIST project.Balloonman (talk) 03:30, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll be honest, as the articles primary creator, I was surprised when this passed the FAC. Based upon the comments at the time, I thought it was going to fail. But it was promoted. I won't complain about it's being promoted, I did take pride in the article. That being said, I haven't been watching the article as closely as I would like, and it has taken a significant turn for the worst. Many of the edits made over the past year, are IMHO, not supported by facts and accurate. I do not believe that this article is FA quality. Unfortunately, I am not motivated enough to get this back to the condition that it needs to be in to preserve the FA status.Balloonman (talk) 03:25, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Have you considered a big revert back to its original form? I did that with Link from the Legend of Zelda and it worked pretty well. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 05:44, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't be opposed to that...Balloonman (talk) 06:28, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I have a bit time today and will flog out anything that seems unsourced. Hopefully, not all new edits were garbage. Wandalstouring (talk) 07:43, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I worked through the article and there are two issues where sources should be provided, otherwise I delete them. One is housing of officers in a row. and: "If a person does not like somebody or gets into a fight, they know that in a few years somebody will move and the problem will disappear." needs also cites. Otherwise the article is still FA material and I would strongly oppose a revert of the last edits. Wandalstouring (talk) 08:40, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I suggest looking at changes just after mainpage date, as opposed to the FA version. Also, I understand Balloonman is discouraged, but this article should be saved. I worked on it a lot with him pre-FAC, so obviously I'm biased :-) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:30, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree that the article ought not to be demoted, hoaving kept an eye on it during its mainpage view date I kind of feel like it part mine too. Of course, being a military brat myself makes me bias as well :-) TomStar81 (Talk) 04:54, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Next time semiprotect anything that appears on the main page. There have been made some useful edits since 30th April. But I wouldn't oppose a revert to the version before it appeared on the main page in case the useful and referenced additions and images that have since been inserted get implemented. You can easily find them out by comparing the first and the last edits of the edit history pages. Wandalstouring (talk) 06:56, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I just reread the article, and the changes weren't as bad as I thought they were the other night. I just went through the article and compared the current version with the version that appeared on the main page a year ago. I removed all of the OR that was added (especially that which was inserted before a reference) Restored some of the deleted text and fixed some of the other POV inserted into the article. My concerns have been alleviated.Balloonman (talk) 06:29, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

I propose a steady keep and watch since the issues seem solved. Wandalstouring (talk) 09:25, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] City status in the United Kingdom

Notified Lozleader, GSTQ, Morwen, DWaterson, WikiProject Urban studies and planning, WikiProject Cities, WikiProject Architecture, and WikiProject UK geography

The article fails the featured article criterion in several ways. Several sections have no inline citations (1c), the lead is too short (2a), the notes in the List of officially designated cities section are a mess, there are external jumps, the article is somewhat listy and some footnotes are not formatted correct. --Peter Andersen (talk) 16:33, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree entirely. Writing problems and it's too much of a LIST! TONY (talk) 14:58, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

It is a sad truth that the page is more like a hybrid between an article and a list; I remind my colleagues that Featured Lists did not exist when this article was featured (2004). Therefore, I have a radical solution to propose: take the "List of officially designated cities", which looks like an intrusion right in the middle of the article, and all its footnotes, and move them to a separate page (preferably titled List of cities in the United Kingdom, which is currently a redirect to the page here examined). An entire range of formatting and layout options would then open for the list, and with some work it could even make it to FL. This article, meanwhile, would be easier to work with, leaving us mostly with the lead and citations to worry about. Waltham, The Duke of 02:54, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

So if we remove the list, what do we do with the section on cathedral towns? It seems counterintuitive to have a list of cathedral towns in the article, without also including a list of cities. Perhaps a summary list of cities should be retained, whilst the table can be moved to its own article?GSTQ (talk) 01:30, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

It has crossed my mind as well, and I agree that we should keep a list of cities; it would not make for an informative article if it omitted the crucial part of which communities have city status. No information other than the city names and each one's constituent nation should be given, however. The cathedral-towns list would not have to change at all this way, and everyone would be happy. Waltham, The Duke of 02:49, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, I think we've fixed the leader and the listiness (as best as it can be fixed in such an article; personally I didn't see a problem with it as it was), and removing the table has alleviated some of the citation problems. I'm not sure about 1(c) though. I'm sure something could be gleaned from the footnotes from the table in List of cities in the United Kingdom, if anybody were in a mind to do so.GSTQ (talk) 05:52, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

On another note, I did not understand Mr Andersen's comment about external jumps. Apart from that, a good improvement to the article might be to add another image. The question is, however, "what is there to add?" Waltham, The Duke of 16:43, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

External jumps are links to external websites in the middle of the text.--Peter Andersen (talk) 17:09, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I think there are only two of these, both referring to "Key Statistics for Urban Areas", and each tiem the surrounding wording rather repeats the same info too. Shouldnt' be too hard to re-word (maybe link to Census in the United Kingdom), and use the link as a (named) footnote instead. David Underdown (talk) 09:30, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Theodore Roosevelt

Notifications:

All five editors with over 50 edits: SimonATL, Rjensen, Johnleemk, Shanes, & Gdo01

All projects on talk page: WP:Columbia, WP:MILHIST, WP:USPREZ, WP:WPBIO, WP:NY, WP:HSCH, & WP:FM

This article is a tremendous resource on WP. However, I was looking for a place to add an image and saw three {{cn}} tags withing a very short space.

• The article has at least a half dozen of them and many completely unsourced paragraphs. Thus, the article fails 1 (c).
• It fails 2(a) with a five paragraph WP:LEAD.
• It may fail 4 as the second longest article for an American Politician at WP:FA based on research I did a week ago for Wikipedia:Peer review/Jack Kemp/archive1.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 02:18, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
• Additionally, the article refers to him as Theodore Roosevelt, Jr. in the lead and then mentions his son, Theodore Roosevelt, Jr. later.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 02:19, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
• N.B. The article survived a FAR two years ago.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 02:21, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

  You're right. The article is full of unsourced statements (quotations, no less) and is way too long. It seems to have more than doubled in size since the last nomination. Bit of a shame given that it's about Teddy. --RegentsPark (talk) 03:02, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

  Have you thought of trolling for some less active editors with more recent histories as well (three of the top five seem to be dormant). Zsero looks like a likely candidate. --RegentsPark (talk) 03:10, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

  • By all means, step right up and notify anyone you think will help.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 08:34, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• I think it's probably time for a top-down review. While I'm a TR fan myself, some of TR's political mistakes, particularly after his departure from the White House are not adequately covered. I've spent almost a year reading every critical book on TR I could find including Pringle and Blum and we ought to consider these as well as the laudatory stuff. Sure TR was a great guy, but consider this - before he finished his last year, Congress was literally ignoring Presidential messages that they would usually read from the House Floor - "O Yes, O Yes, a message from the President to the House..." i.e. instead of reading, they were FILING them. What accounts for his almost "miserable" relations with Congress which can only be partially accounted by his lame duck status (I won't run a again) status. SimonATL (talk) 18:10, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Featured article removal candidates

Place the most recent review at the top. If the nomination is just beginning, place under Featured Article Review, not here.

[edit] The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

[edit] Review commentary

Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games, Wikipedia:WikiProject Nintendo, Wikipedia:WikiProject The Legend of Zelda series and User:Cuivienen notified

I don't think this passes 1c with no refs in the Gameplay section and a total of two in the Plot section. The Reception section also looks a bit sort. Buc (talk) 21:08, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

• The Gameplay section could use some more sources, but most of it is based on the game itself and its manual. Some video game articles include several footnotes to the game's manual, but I don't believe that to be necessary. The reception section could use some expansion but shows the general trend of criticism well enough. In conclusion, some things could be improved, but I think the article still meets FA-standards. It certainly meets all video games guidelines. User:Krator (t c) 22:00, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Make the manual the ref then. Buc (talk) 19:57, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
• It also has excessive use of fair use images per WP:NFCC. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 22:40, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
• Well, shoot. I did a lot of work on this article during its FAC, enough that I sort of consider it one of "my" FAs even though I wasn't the nominator. (I don't assume to own it, of course.) I know it needs work—I'm willing to put in the effort to keep this featured, but I'm going to be stretched thin between this and the FAC for another Zelda game that's really putting me through the wringer at the moment. Pagrashtak 00:32, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Please complete the nomination by following the instructions at the top of WP:FAR to notify significant contributors and relevant WikiProjects, and post the notifications back to the top of this FAR. Perhaps the following users: User:Axem Titanium seems to have a significant number of recent edits. (I see that User:Pagrashtak has been notified.) Thanks!--RegentsPark (talk) 01:50, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Pagrashtak; give me a yell (on my talk) if you need any specific help with the article. dihydrogen monoxide (H₂O) 08:27, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

• Comment Image:MajorasMaskMiakuPractice.jpg and Image:zora.JPG seem completely unnecessary in the article and the fair use rationales do nothing to convince me otherwise. Jay32183 (talk) 03:23, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
  • You should have seen it before I removed five images. What do you think of Image:Zora.JPG now? Pagrashtak 07:11, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
    • That's a much better rationale. Good enough for me not to argue with the inclusion of the image. Jay32183 (talk) 21:29, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• I see the ref link to archive.org is a duffer. Anyone have an alternative? --Oscarthecat (talk) 06:20, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
• I would like to see an image featuring Link w/o a mask on. - A Link to the Past (talk) 04:35, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] FARC commentary

Suggested FA criteria concerns are citations (1c) and images (3). Marskell (talk) 16:52, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] George Fox

[edit] Review commentary

Wikipedia:WikiProject Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) and User talk:69.108.205.8 notified

This was featured in 2004 and appears to be abandoned (original nominator and contributor are no longer active). Minor problems include an insufficient lead. But more importantly, old unreliable sources are used (19th century) in the Harvard references. As for citations, only primary sources (i.e., his autobiography and his journal) are cited which would tend to produce a biased result. This should be written based on scholarly secondary sources like Ingle, mentioned as a useful source, but does not appear to be used at all. I think I can help bring this up to standard (got to check out if I can get some books), but I hope others can help here. --RelHistBuff (talk) 15:25, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Please complete the nomination by following the instructions at the top of WP:FAR to notify significant contributors and relevant WikiProjects, and post the notifications back to the top of this FAR. Thanks! --RegentsPark (talk) 15:45, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I notified the WikiProject. I could post to the nominator, Quadell, and contributor, AlexG, but I assume that would be as useful as notifying Emworth. The top 10 contributors are IP addresses. --RelHistBuff (talk) 15:51, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I see that. Perhaps a note on the IP address discussion pages for 86.158.6.105 would help (assuming that their edits were not trivial). Though I see that when you say 'abandoned' you mean it! (Perhaps adding an invitation to the article talk page - in addition to the notification - would also be useful.) --RegentsPark (talk) 16:00, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I did some cleaning up and in the process I should point out a correction. It turns out that his autobiography and journal are the same. It also appears that an early edition (Jones 1908) was used rather than the more reliable modern edition (Nickalls 1952). So basically the sources for this article are Fox's Journal (1694, Jones edition), Marsh (1847), and Schaff (1914, tertiary source). This means 1c is not satisfied in that it does not use "reliable sources and accurately represent the relevant body of published knowledge." --RelHistBuff (talk) 08:14, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Here's one thing I'm not too clear on: "His education was based around the faith and practice of the Church of England, of which his parents were members; this parish was strongly puritan, in this case Presbyterian." What exactly is being said here? "He was brought up Anglican, but his neighbours were Presbyterian", or "He was brought up as a puritan within the broad umbrella of the Church of England"? DrKiernan (talk) 07:15, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Not clear at all. It sounds contradictory. I took a look in the Journal and Schaff-Herzog and there is nothing about his education being based around either the Church of England or a Presbyterian church. It probably came from a secondary source somewhere. A question before working too heavily on the article. Would you be able to get one of the secondary sources, i.e., Ingle or Wildes? If so, then I will try looking for one of those in the library and then we could try to get the article in shape jointly. If I try to do this by myself, I know that it will take me a few months which is too slow to save it from bein